Monday, October 4, 2010

How to explain there's another way of looking at it ?

This discussion is about a common mistake that new atheists make, trying to reconvert back nice girls in their life to atheism. It is one thing telling your girlfriend that you are a non-believer and another to make her see things your way.
My opinion is don't push it especially with girls. After all you wouldn't want her to teach religion to you.


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20/04/2004

Ron

how to explain there's another way to look at it ?

hi,

this girl i know (who's really cool), believes in god, which is fine with me, but she even said she believes in the adam & eve story, which i find so far fetched myself...

now, of course, she has all right to believe whatever she wants to believe, but how do i explain to her what's so unlikely about what she believes and why my atheist view on things would be something she should look into..

what arguments can i use ?

now again, i don't wanna "convert" her or anything, but i do want her to see another perspective and not believe what she believes without questioning it.

any advise ? any strong arguments ?

20/04/2004

Louis

What do you think is so far fetched about the adam and eve story?

remeber god refuses to prove his own existance so there is no real way to prove he doesn't exist. I suggest you ignore it and just talk about other things.

Unless she is trying to convert you, but even then, why bother? You aren't going to change her mind.

20/04/2004

Ron

smart thinking :)

and i'll try to get her to read this article: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/WhyAtheism.htm

it's great :)

20/04/2004

any advise ?

My advice is "Don't go there". You'll rue the day! Might as well go ahead and start rueing.

Also, you don't need to use the leading space before ? (and ! if you do that). :P

20/04/2004

Ron

i don't need to, i choose to :)

20/04/2004

Scott

I would simply tell her the truth - that I think religion is silly. Very matter of fact and non-threatening, non-challening. Smile. Laugh. Look slightly embarassed. But above all be totally honest. There's not need for wordy debates. I mean the basic idea here doesn't require a lot of exposition. We believe in things for which there is evidence... not in fairy tale, mythological, magical, pretend things like Adam and Eve. It's really quite intuitive and even relgious people "get it"... they either have sealed up their minds against the truth or they haven't. Not usually a lot you can do besides just "witness" with your own beliefs.

I'd like to believe, though, that there are "believers" out there that would be so stunned and captivated by the straightforward and honestly stated atheist position that they would find themselves enboldened to think about things a little more... and maybe even come around to our side over time.

20/04/2004

Chad-Michael

Gather a few atheist friends, dress in orange robes, and when she's at home sitting on the couch with a friend, burst in the door and yell, "No one expects the Atheist Inquisition!"

20/04/2004

Ron

[quote]I'd like to believe, though, that there are "believers" out there that would be so stunned and captivated by the straightforward and honestly stated atheist position that they would find themselves enboldened to think about things a little more... and maybe even come around to our side over time.[/quote]

exactly, believers are not that informed.. i mean, even i don't know exactly how life can suddenly exist.. i do know it's simply a matter of chemistry and physics. this completely evaporates the "miracle of life", which i think is no miracle at all, just a fortunate coincidence.
Some replies on this page have been deleted or are under review.




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21/04/2004

Ron

god and evidence

a quote from the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God "for proves denies faith and without faith I am nothing".
"But," says Man, "the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own argument you don't. QED"
"Oh, dear", says God, "I hadn't thought of that", and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

21/04/2004

Cath

At the risk of thread-crossing, Kip, there's a huge difference between belief and worship. And also between belief and blind faith. Sometimes people confuse these and that makes arguments difficult at times. It is imaginable that one might believe in a god but not worship it.

I neither believe in nor worship any gods. I do believe, on the evidence, that dinosaurs are extinct, that there is sand on the beaches in Spain, and there is life on some other planet somewhere in the universe. But none of those beliefs involve worship or blind faith.

I also believe that Kip's name is not legally Kip, but is probably Christopher. I believe that less strongly than I believe the one about the sand. It's not like an evangelist's "I BELIEVE!!!!". Perhaps that's where the confusion comes from.

23/04/2004

Cath

Kip, not Christopher?

Kip, that's exactly why I used the analogy of your name, to point out that "belief" can be based on general principles, and is subject to revision. I now believe that your name is Kip. I'm still not 100% certain, because you could be lying. But I believe you, even though I've never met you or your parents or seen your birth cetificate. Do you think I should not believe you?

My point is that "belief" can be a provisional conclusion, with full awareness that further evidence may change that. Your 99.999% would seem to qualify to me as a common-sense belief, though not an evangelical Belief. I have a feeling that we would need to go and found (or join?) an epistemology group to hammer this out. If we really wanted to.

Meanwhile, I believe I'll have a cup of tea and some lunch.

23/04/2004

Befe

Why don't you just find a smarter girl. You may like this one now, but eventually she would drive you crazy: she's simply too stupid. Don't waste time; life is short.
Some replies on this page have been deleted or are under review.




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24/04/2004

Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0716733870/qid%3D1029423076/sr%3D12-1/103-0635351-8745463]

Seems relevant.






Looks like the back up idea is getting better quality-wise.

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